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    Tuesday, August 3, 2021

    A short story on searching for a publishing deal for our indie game called Heading Out - 2020/2021

    A short story on searching for a publishing deal for our indie game called Heading Out - 2020/2021


    A short story on searching for a publishing deal for our indie game called Heading Out - 2020/2021

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 04:19 AM PDT

    tl;dr: We are a small indie game studio from Poland. Heading Out is our second game after a relatively successful but quite niche title 'Radio Commander'. Heading out is a mix of racing and narrative mechanics and aims to adopt the American road movie genre to the video game medium. To our best knowledge, we did everything right but yet couldn't find a publishing partner for that title. The game's general idea, esthetics, and mood, as well as our pitch deck, were highly praised. We had a working build in the form of a vertical slice/prototype, we had budget sheets, even some trailers, and promo materials ready. We spoke with numerous publishers (big and small), exchanged hundreds of emails, participated in events (online, since Covid-19), and achieved nothing as of yet. Meanwhile, we've experienced many 'Catch-22' situations and other highly surprising obstacles that we describe below.

    Authors: Jakub, Kasia, Marcin, Tomek - Serious Sim (https://www.serioussim.net/)

    Disclaimer: Heading Out is quite an original game, it combines mechanics and topics from different genres and there is no direct comparison to it, therefore it is probably not the best benchmark for the typical indie video game vs. publisher-finding situation.

    How it started:

    It's October 2019 and as a small indie studio 'Serious Sim' located in Poland we just released our first game - an innovative strategy game: Radio Commander. The game's gimmick or USP is quite simple - the player can't see his units, their location, statistics and he has to rely on their radio reports only.

    The novelty works, execution is decent, the game returns its production budget on the release day then it continues to sell well. We plan to publish at least one DLC and port it to other platforms, but more importantly, we want to start working on a new title - something without war and military mumble, something really cool - a video game adaptation of classic American road movies. The movie Vanishing Point (1971) is our main inspiration.

    We love the concept and pre-production starts right away - gathering materials, references, first prototypes, etc. But the post-release patching and the aforementioned DLC for Radio Commander has to be done, thus any actual production starts in June 2020.

    We had a nice kick-meeting, crucial design decisions were made - gameplay structure, esthetics, main mechanics, audio aspects, etc. For the next 5 months, we are committed to one thing only - developing a vertical slice demo build of the game. It goes pretty well, the effects are really decent.

    At this point, we've read/watched/listened to every piece of relevant information on how to approach publishers. We're addicted to GDC prelections. Our general notion is that there is a boom on the market and the stock exchange is hungry for video games. Namely 'anything' that is a video game can get funding, no problem at all! Well, maybe sometimes if the team is completely inexperienced and they have no finished games in the portfolio, there might be a problem. But with a finished game? Especially a successful one? There is no chance to not get a deal.

    Of course, there are things that could help to get a deal: a neat game idea, a good pitch deck, and the build. We had this idea that with a working build, it's almost certain to strike a publishing deal. Maybe not always the dream deal, but some kind of a deal would always be on the table.

    So we prepared a pitch deck, attached the demo build, and sent it to approx. 50 publishing companies that we've selected considering their profiles, portfolios, etc. More than half of the companies replied to the messages - not bad at all. Almost every returned message remarked that the pitch deck is really good, very detailed, nicely put together, good looking, etc. The idea was said to be really catchy and the aesthetics were well-received - almost every response points out that the black&white comic esthetic looks dope and the idea and mood are great. We've also created 3 OST songs as part of the demo and those were well received too. The online meetings started, things looked kinda great.

    How it went further:

    First problems started to appear not so long after. Below is the general juxtaposition, not 100% chronically but…

    1. Deadlines. Most publishing companies simply don't respect any deadlines. Even those they give out themself. As such, if a publisher states that they will answer in 3 weeks time, it is rarely 3 weeks. More often 6 weeks or until you ping them. Funnily enough, enormous corporations like Tencent, Koch, Take-Two Interactive are more likely to respond in a timely fashion than small companies that market themselves as very understanding and pro-dev ;) Generally, the big firms were more pleasant in contact than the small ones which have repeatedly forgotten to answer even the simplest questions.

    2. Originality/familiarity. Publishers want original, innovative games that stand out from the crowd since they are aware that the market is crowded (we don't want another survival game, duh). But at the same time, they wanted us to point out almost exact game examples on the market to benchmark the sales, etc. That's one of the main 'Catch-22' issues we have encountered - you have to bring them a super original and innovative game that is somehow already on the market or to put it in other words - something innovative and fresh and yet something tested and bulletproof to minimize the risk. Funny detail: there is an indie game that was an important inspiration for us, and was quite a success: Jalopy. Nobody knew it. We put it in the pitch deck and no one even checked the game's Steam page.

    3. Budgeting. There is a gap in the market between big publishers focused on large projects/budgets and small publishers that are capable of committing only limited resources on smaller projects. And we believe we were right in the middle of this gap. Few times we were rejected by big badass publishers for being simply too small.

    One of the big publishers put it very simply - "For us, it is easier to commit 10 million euros into a project than to commit less than 1 million". On the other hand, many publishers when they saw our budget of around 300k euros said that this is way too much for them. It was a really rare thing when the budget fit the publisher we've been talking to.

    1. Professionalism. Unfortunately, it was super often that the guys from the publishing companies responsible for the supposed deals did not read any of the materials we've sent them beforehand and jumped straight into a call with us. They attended the calls with no idea about the project and either wanted us to present it from the ground or by reading the pitch on the fly and asking questions that were answered 2 or 3 weeks earlier. After some time we've lost much of the initial energy due to those shitty calls.

    Some publishers were so lazy that they wrote back to us asking "what do we expect from them as a publisher". All the information was in the pitch deck! We were so shocked, that while sending the next round of emails we added a special extra page titled: "What do we expect from a publisher?" where all the info was gathered.

    1. Feedback. In most cases, the feedback we received was low quality or non-existent. Publishers often say that it's never too early to come to them, even if there's only an idea or sth like that. We call bullshit. Even with a playable vertical slice, a detailed month-by-month budget, decent GDD, etc. we very often got opinions like 'Feature X is not polished enough' or 'There are some performance issues on stage Y' as if the game was supposed to be released the next day.

    It often seemed as if the project and the build itself were judged by someone who somehow hasn't played too many video games in a 'work-in-progress' state. We had this feeling that the people on the other side completely lacked the ability to extrapolate from what they saw. Instead, they took most of the presented features as supposedly "ready-to-ship" and as such, gave irrelevant remarks at this stage of the development. With a focus on performance, amount of content, replayability, etc. Of course, there were some examples of really good feedback, e.g. super.com - kudos.

    1. Negotiations. The most shocking thing for us was a total lack of the will to negotiate. After all the back and forth emails and calls, it always ended in: 'We have to say no because of X'. In some cases, it was reasonable, where the publisher was not interested in this type of game or was not looking for new projects, etc. But in many cases, we heard 'no' because the budget was 'a bit too big' in the publisher's opinion. Every time we responded that we were ready to discuss and adopt the budget, but it never came to that. We never received a counter-offer to our proposals.

    How is it now:

    We decided to update the build, redesign the gameplay loop according to those few examples of reasonable feedback, add some features into it, polish it to avoid any performance or similar issues and we've sent the second wave of pitches in February 2021. This time even to those publishers who seemed not the best fit for us in the first place - around 100 more emails. The situation was more or less the same with some talks going for several weeks and ending with 'No'.

    We started to run out of money since we invested everything from our first game into this one. Eventually, we decided to publish the project and see how it is received by players, not publishers only. We released the Steam page in June 2021 and did some in-house marketing without spending any money to see how it goes. We wrote a press kit, created a trailer, and a music video for one of the songs. We are trying to reach gamers on Twitter, Facebook, Imgur, 9gag, and many other platforms. After one month we have around 2k wishlists on Steam without spending a single dollar. Is that good or bad? Hard to tell - 'not great, not terrible' to quote one bastard. We are still in talks with really great publishing companies, but after all these rejections we are not feeling optimistic. We have not given up hope completely and would love to work on the project.

    What we think we might have screwed up:
    The build we supplied did not have any explicit marks of what is "DONE" and what is "WiP". When we now look at some other games that provide an early build or Beta versions from many years ago, we see that a lot of them quite blatantly use "PlaceHolder Art" or tutorial style pop-up messaging, informing the player: 'Hey, this feature is not ready yet, this is how it will work". A prime example of this might be the new Company of Heroes 3 public Pre-Alpha. We did no such thing.

    We just always assumed that people who sign publishing deals and whose daily job is to playtest early builds would see past the technicalities. It might have backfired and our demo was not self-explanatory, and playtesters simply did not 'get' at what stage of the development the game actually was.

    Question:

    Do you guys have similar experiences or maybe we are in the wrong? Maybe the game concept is simply crap, but no one was honest enough to say it to us? :)

    Links:
    https://www.headingout.games/
    https://store.steampowered.com/app/1640630/Heading_Out__A_Narrative_Road_Movie_Racing_Game/
    https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadingOut/
    https://store.steampowered.com/app/871530/Radio_Commander/

    submitted by /u/braaaur
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    "Nobody wants to play an arena shooter from some random indie dev."

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 06:25 AM PDT

    Is that true?

    As someone who has been solo developing a team based FPS I never really stopped to think.. is this game something that anyone would play?

    I have been working on it for nearly 5 years, learning to make games for almost 10, specifically because I wanted to make this game. As I try to get it out there and market it, I continue to run into the same problem, nobody cares!

    It could be for many reasons, and don't get me wrong, I love working on it. It has become my "thing" and regardless of it's potential success I personally NEED to see it through to the end.

    My curiosity lies in does it even have a chance to be played. When people have the likes of Halo and CSGO and CALL OF DUTY, would they even want to give my game a shot? Sure mine has a few gimmicks that make it stand out but do regular player scoff at these kind of games?

    I am starting to feel like a musician obsessed with a song that only my grandma will listen to.

    Rant over.

    If you're curious here is my steam page. (keep in mind it is a WIP not a final product)

    submitted by /u/sad_gandalf
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    Free Nintendo-inspired music for your games!

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 09:37 AM PDT

    Hi there,

    I'm the composer for a recently launched copyright-free music label called Stream Cafe. Our goal is to create thoughtful, high quality music that game developers/streamers/content creators can use free of charge. We just released our first volume of music last week, which is heavily inspired by classic Nintendo music. You can listen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQvXEza4fPc

    (or just search "Stream Cafe" on any major streaming service)

    If anyone would like to use any of these tunes in their game please shoot me an email at the address located in the description of the video, and I can send you the full-quality .wav files. It's all available under the Creative Commons "Attribution-NoDerivs" license (This license lets others reuse the work for any purpose, including commercially; however, it cannot be shared with others in adapted form, and credit must be provided to the original creator).

    Thanks for checking it out and feel free to share with anyone you think might be interested!

    - Justin

    submitted by /u/streamcafemusic
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    UE4 | Featured free Marketplace content - August 2021

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 08:57 AM PDT

    Part 2: Developing a game in 30 Days, Releasing it in hopefully less than 60 Days — A transparent story…

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 11:26 AM PDT

    how to do memory pool de-fragmentation?

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 10:36 AM PDT

    I'm new to this stuff.

    Instead of developing a rendering engine, I'm trying to lay down the foundations first. After a few failed projects, and some necessary humbling failures, I have learned a major lesson : Game engines are meant to create games, so if I don't have a goal of creating a game using my game engine, then I shouldn't be building one. My current goal is to create a simple retro game with Silent Hill 2 style graphics, DOOM Eternal style combat and Sekiro like difficulty.

    I have finished creating the basic data structures (everything's using heap allocated 1D arrays, even the trees and linked lists), level/scene storage schema, and now I want to create the more advanced stuff like memory allocators and data serialization / de-serialization methods. Then move on to creating editor, implementing rendering and animation. Hopefully my method and steps taken are correct.

    Currently I'm trying to create a memory pool, so that the game engine doesn't have to dynamically call malloc during gameplay, and suffer from excessive slowdowns. Maybe I can use multi threading to call malloc on a thread that's not busy rendering, and thus hide the slowdown. But, still I need a central memory manager that will distribute the memory required by different datastructures in the game engine.

    There is one very specific thing that I'm not sure how to do:

    • memory pool de-fragmenting - I'm trying to use a ring buffer to keep track of contiguous chunks of memory that has been "freed" (we reuse the memory later), and can be used by other datastructures. When requested for allocating memory for any other datastructure, the central memory manager will look into the ring buffer to find a chunk of memory that is big enough to be used. However, after a few thousand iterations (using test data, not real game data), the memory becomes fragmented, and the ring buffer gets filled up with thousands of small chunks of freed memory blocks. So, when we ask for a big chunk of memory, it can't find one big enough.

    I don't know how to properly de-fragment this whole mess. I don't want to do premature optimization here, and thus wanted to ask other experts on how this is normally done in the industry, and ask for whatever resources I can get to learn more about creating memory pools, and proper memory handling. There's probably no right answer, and different cases might require different solutions, so I don't know how to better frame this question.

    submitted by /u/xstkovrflw
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    What do you think about my games art style?

    Posted: 02 Aug 2021 08:06 PM PDT

    Hi everyone, I'm currently working on a small puzzle platformer game. I'm trying to make an art style for my game. I'm not good at visual side of game development so I decided to make something a little simple. What do you think about my games visual style? Is it looks like too much complex? If you see this games screenshots on Steam would you be positive about it or negative? Any comments appreciated.

    https://reddit.com/link/owujk7/video/287dlc5872f71/player

    submitted by /u/Scienitive
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    Wow, I did it… kind of!

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 09:50 AM PDT

    About a week ago, I published my first commercial indie game on Steam (Car Looper). With this release, I earned my first money from a game that I made and published by myself. Well I only sold 6 copies so far… that's about 25 $.
    Still, isn't this a win?

    I think it is. I did it, I made a game that everybody who played it liked, it has enough content to be really considered a "game" and I made some money from it. The best part is still missing, I learned so many things.

    1. All kinds of technical Unity stuff.
      I can't list everything here, but I like every project I learned awesome new tricks for materials, code structure and multilanguage support for example.

    2. Steam Page /wishlists
      As soon as you have a prototype or ANYTHING at all to show to potential customers, DO IT.
      You can't get enough wishlists.

    3. Steam Page
      One of my biggest problems was /is, that you can't tell the exact kind of gameplay just by looking at the images screenshots in the first 5 - 10 seconds. After you read the description, it becomes clear, but many people don't do that. So optimize your trailer, your images and your description for optimal acquisition of customers.

    4. Keymailer
      Keymailer is an awesome platform to share your game with influencers of all size.
      With minimal effort you can easily share keys to your game!

    5. SPAM Mails
      After launching a game, you will get many many spam emails asking for keys. DON'T give it to them. Most of the are just scammers trying to get as many Steam Keys as possible.

    6. Marketing/ social media
      This is also a point where I failed in this project. I tried to post regularly and frequently, but I just didn't. So I hope you can use this tipp and really post as often as you can on all different kinds of platforms (Reddit, Twitter, Instagram, Youtube….).

    7. Visual Appeal
      Create a game that's visually appealing. I think I kinda failed there too. For the gameplay itself it made perfect sense. But in a marketing perspective, I just couldn't get myself to create some interesting visuals. This probably also lost me couple of sales.

    8. Playtesting
      Let other people test your game as soon as possible. Take their critic and try to fix those things. Don't let feedback take you down!

    All in all, for a game idea that started as a GameJam in 2020, I am really happy that I was able to finish it! That is the most important tip that I can give to you. FINISH YOUR PROJECTS! Only then will you be able to learn new things and get some success with it!

    submitted by /u/Snotax_CH
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    Alternatives to substance painter for someone who can't run it?

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 11:31 AM PDT

    Hi! I'm a 16 year old dude whos been drawing and programming for a bit now. I want to get into making 3d games, but my problem comes from the fact that the computer that I use to draw is not powerful enough to run substance painter, which is what everybody says I should be using. I've been getting by on texturing very low poly stuff in blender, but even things as simple as a ps1 style model are difficult, especially since I don't really now how to lay out a texture sheet. Any advice?

    submitted by /u/FishShtickLives
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    What to expect from zero marketing indie on Steam in 2021?

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 11:26 AM PDT

    I just launched a coming soon page for a small game, and I'm wondering about what to expect in terms of organic traffic.

    Last release was a few years ago and it was getting something in the ballpark of 40 wishlists a day during coming soon (zero marketing).

    From watching analytics, it seems like the organic traffic is close to zero though with this store page. It has me a bit concerned.

    Is it still realistic to expect at least a few hundred to a thousand sales on a zero marketing game in 2021 (assuming the game is reasonable indie quality)?

    submitted by /u/30to1
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    What is the easiest type of terrain generation to learn for game development?

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 03:52 AM PDT

    Recently I became interested in learning terrain generation for gaming, but there are different types (simplex, diamond square, etc.). But since I have no experience with terrain generation, what is the easiest type of terrain generation to learn for game development?

    submitted by /u/WAHGamer2
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    Have you ever actually been sued or brought to court over your game?

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 11:12 AM PDT

    I hear a lot of talking and see a lot of questions about potentially getting sued because of ______ in a game. But I've never actually heard anyone claim that they really did get sued or taken to court. So is this just people being overly cautious or is it a real possibility that you could get sued for your game? I'm not talking about the stuff that is blatantly illegal like selling real drugs or abuse or breaking the law, but the stuff that many gamedevs seem to ask questions about like using other people's assets without permission or using copyright music/sfx or using someone else's game idea. Has anyone on here actually been sued and/or brought to court for your game?

    submitted by /u/justaguyjoshua
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    A couple questions…

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 08:45 AM PDT

    Okay, so i'm more of the English Speaker, proofreader, social media guy who has some ideas for the game. Basically, the only reason i'm part of this team is because the developers need some things hardware-wise, and i happen to have most of it (servers and junk) with little out of pocket money.

    What i actually contribute is very little but am privileged to be part of the game dev and design team.

    However, it seems we have gotten to a stand still.

    And that stand still now requires some cash flow to continue. We're using free tools, and models, but those only go so far and it seems to me that the actual developers know, but also don't know things to assess. And since their second language is english, it's hard to communicate. Especially when it comes to proofreading dialogue…

    First: how can i assess the required hardware needed to play the game on low, medium and high quality settings? I don't have game play hardware for high quality beta test at this time, and i am trying to set up release notes on our game website. They just tell me "a 2gb card should work okay with this game"

    Second: for indie devs out there; how do you obtain funds when needed? I'm guessing crowdsourcing, but is there any specific sites that specialise is games?

    Again, i'm barely part of the actual development. But i want to prove my worth, however little that is.

    submitted by /u/linux_head_
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    Recursive Dungeon generation visualized

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 10:49 AM PDT

    Started a Blog to Help Game Dev Artists Find their Way

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 04:37 AM PDT

    Hi there!

    A few weeks ago I started a blog with the sole purpose to share my knowledge. I'm an 8+ year AAA games developer, worked on titles like Red Dead Redemption II or the upcoming Dead Island game.

    During all these years I noticed how all my peers and I have similar thoughts, worries, etc. I never thought about doing something like this as I am a very reserved person, and hate giving my opinion just for the sake of it, until I realized I can be really helpful for people who are lost like I once was.

    With this post I'm looking for two things, and I'll be fully transparent:

    • Promote the site so that it can reach a lot of people.
    • Build a healthy community around the site so that we can help each other.
    • Get a lot of feedback, good or bad, including ideas, insecurities, etc. Basically all you can think of is welcome.

    Thank you for reading, and please let me know if you have any questions. Here's the website:

    https://www.gameartblog.com/

    submitted by /u/artofjavi
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    Our game got picked as a model for the future of mental health at the leading global HCI conference. Now we need to take it further and I’d love your advice on finding and working with a game dev.

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 06:45 AM PDT

    I've been a long-time lurker/listener here and the quality of discussions in this community have been a massive help on my own journey. In 2016 I left a career in tech to study mental health and this somehow led me to video games. I could see so much potential in the medium as a tool for self-understanding and personal change, but I had no idea how to use it. So for a while I just played, talked to other players, went to games conferences, etc.

    Then last year, I joined forces with an experienced therapist and a World Fantasy award-winning author to create Betwixt: The Story of You. It's a choose-your-own-adventure game that our players describe as a hybrid between Lifeline, Myst and Lord of the Rings.

    For context, you play as a lone figure trapped in a strange, magical world that responds to your emotions and makes real what you think. Your mission is to escape, but to do that, you have to face yourself. Our idea was to blur the boundaries between fantasy and real life, and create a virtual space where you can escape but also explore your mind.
    We won some innovation grants and a small investment to put together a demo for iOS (3,500 downloads and 3,000 waitlists for the Android version). We had a strong early feedback from players, which allowed us to attract three research teams keen to study the impact of the game on mental health. And as I mentioned in the title, we were selected as a model for the future of mental health at the leading global human-computer interaction conference CHI.

    This leads me to my question for you.

    We've now spent a year and a half tinkering, and it's become clear to us that there's something special and exciting about combining play, storytelling and psychology. We're also getting interest from funders who see a potential in something like Betwixt to shape mental wellness and self-care in years to come.
    But what I think we're currently missing is a game dev - someone with a sense of experience design, passion for the medium, an experimental spirit and programming chops.
    I'd appreciate some advice from you. Where to look for game devs who may resonate with our project? Is it even worth doing - e.g. do people in the space actually prefer going solo, or else working for a big games company and doing their own projects on the side? In my mind, I can see so much potential in this kind of cross-sector collaboration and how it can push the boundaries of games, but I'm finding it hard to see it from a game dev POV, and would be grateful for any advice!

    submitted by /u/Ellie_D
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    Let's create a game system: Multiplayer Abilities, part1 + FREE DOWNLOAD - Unreal Engine 4 + 5

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 10:10 AM PDT

    What determines Minesweeper difficulty?

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 08:34 AM PDT

    I'm making a Minesweeper game for fun and I was wondering what determines the difficulty? The density of the mines? or the distribution? And if someone knows of an algorithm.

    I'm currently distributing the mines in a uniform random way. I have a threshold say 30% and generate a random number between 0% and 100% and if the number is below the threshold then it's a mine, meaning that 30% of the blocks are going to be mines.

    What are your thought? should I use something more sophisticated or the difficulty is determined by the threshold i.e. 10% is harder than 40%?

    submitted by /u/Fransebas
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    JS for 2D mmorpg? Will it preform ok?

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 11:46 AM PDT

    I want to do 2d mmorpg in Javascript. But Im unsure how the lag and preformace would be in such a game with 100s of players in the same spot possibly. Is thus somthing node.js and javascript would handle well?

    submitted by /u/The_Late_Adopter
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    Alternative to polygon rendering?

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 05:26 AM PDT

    Disclaimer: I'm not a game dev, but I think this community would be my best bet for an answer.

    Years ago I distinctly remember seeing a video of an alternative rendering method that, if I recall correctly, used what is basically "atoms" to build 3d environments and assets. So instead of triangles they were essentially using millions of individual dots to create games/3d animations, and it was claimed to be more efficient to animated and play.

    Does anyone else recall this technology or was it just some fever dream I had?

    submitted by /u/crockpocket
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    Voxel Mesh Generation Part 1!!

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 05:25 AM PDT

    Does anyone have a good resource for finding images to use as Visual Novel backgrounds?

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 11:22 AM PDT

    Commissioning backgrounds is a bit out of my budget so some cheap generic backgrounds would be fine. Finding naturescapes is pretty straightforward but I'm not sure where to find generic medieval urban backgrounds like inns or pubs and castles and etc.

    submitted by /u/Fl333r
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    How to be continuously motivated?

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 10:47 AM PDT

    Hello guys, I am 20 years old and aimed to be an indie game developer. When come up with good ideas I am so passionate that I can't even sleep at night. But after a few days of laborious work, things just changed, I give up so quickly even the idea is almost implemented.

    So far I've planned lots of projects, but none of them is ever finished or announced.

    Sorry I know this is a frequently asked question, I just wonder the actual feelings and state of real game developers.

    submitted by /u/k2kra
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    Just a short video showing how to make multiplayer servers/rooms in Unity using Normcore, hope it helps!

    Posted: 03 Aug 2021 10:05 AM PDT

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