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    Big 4 Discussion - June 06, 2018 CS Career Questions

    June 06, 2018

    Big 4 Discussion - June 06, 2018 CS Career Questions

    Big 4 Discussion - June 06, 2018

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 12:07 AM PDT

    Please use this thread to have discussions about the Big 4 and questions related to the Big 4, such as which one offers the best doggy benefits, or how many companies are in the Big 4 really? Posts focusing solely on Big 4 created outside of this thread will probably be removed.

    Abide by the rules, don't be a jerk.

    This thread is posted each Sunday and Wednesday at midnight PST. Previous Big 4 Discussion threads can be found here.

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    Daily Chat Thread - June 06, 2018

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 12:07 AM PDT

    Please use this thread to chat, have casual discussions, and ask casual questions. Moderation will be light, but don't be a jerk.

    This thread is posted every day at midnight PST. Previous Daily Chat Threads can be found here.

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    How should an older(ish) dev with literally *no* work experience, go about getting their first job?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 12:56 PM PDT

    Obvious throwaway, because I really don't want my reputation destroyed …

    So, almost all the employment, resume, getting-hired advice I can find out there around the Internet (and on this sub) boils down to one of three situations:

    1. Recent college grads / younger self-taught devs asking 'how do I get my first job' or 'what can I do to make my resume more interesting than "just another CS grad",'

    2. Industry developers ready to move on to a new position, asking 'how do I negotiate for <desired trait> at my next job,'

    3. … and people transitioning into tech at a more advanced age, whether self-taught or recent 'bootcamp' grads, asking how to make their existing experiential history look more attractive to new (to them) tech folks.

    Well, I've got a slightly unusual situation. I'm a slightly older, thoroughly self-taught programmer, and I'm really worried that I've backed myself into a completely untenable corner:

    I've never had a single job.

    I've contributed to a ton of open source; I feel my name is fairly well-known in the dev community (though obviously, nobody knows I'm secretly super-unemployed.) I've written software in a prodigious array of languages (hell, I've written programming languages themselves) and targeting plenty of platforms. More importantly, though, I really believe I'm a seasoned developer when it comes to the softer skills particular to programming (project management, communication, software architecture and planning, managing maintainability and feature-creep …)

    Thing is, I have no idea how the applications process works. I have no idea how to make myself presentable on paper. I have nothing whatsoever to put in the non-optional, required "work experience" field on the recruitment-as-a-service apps that so many companies seem to use to accept applications. Like, I have no experience even simply having a boss to answer to. Who the hell would touch me?

    I don't wish to go into the details about my personal situation that have left me unemployed for so long; suffice it to say a combination of my health, and more recently, self-fulfilling anxiety over this very situation. ("How am I gonna apply for jobs? I know! I'll go learn <new, impressive skill> or write <large, impressive project>, and then nobody will notice the lack of work-experience on my resume." Six months later, "Cool, I did that, now … how am I gonna apply for jobs?") Eh, screw it. See edit below.

    Anyway. I'm terrified that no company would touch me for a 'senior' (am I even using that word correctly?) position with a ten-foot pole. In fact, I'm terrified I won't be able to even find a junior position, or freakin' paid internship, because those are all gonna go to the 20-year-olds who're straight outta college.

    What I'm looking for:

    • Expectation adjustment. Is a 'senior' position, or an interesting position doing something other than goddamn CRUD apps in Ruby on Rails, out of the question? Or am I over-thinking this, and real companies in the real world are likely to give zero shits about this?

    • Commiseration. Has anyone on here been through this before? I feel like it's a really unique, in a shitty way, experience. I wish somebody could tell me it's all gonna turn out okay.

    • Numbers. What do y'all think somebody in my position should be asking for? I'm tempted to go super-low, but that could be the anxiety talking … I'm (also) terrified of starting the "salary climb" a decade and change too late, y'know? Shooting too low on my first job, 'cause of all this, and screwing over my future ability to ask for raises at later jobs / eventually support a family.

    Edit 1: I really didn't want this to become yet another conversation about mental health and employability; but so many replies fixated on it so … serious Major Depressive, mild ADD, and absolutely crippling comorbid parasomnias, have kept "Real Work" very unavailable to me for, jesus, fifteen years? My entire life? Supportive family and siblings keep me in livable conditions, but and a combination of changes in their situations, and recent improvements in the effectiveness of my cocktail of medications, have left me feeling able enough to buckle down and start searching. (Yes, I'm also worried about these things affecting my performance if I do find something; but that's more of a bridge-when-I-come-to-it situation. /=)

    tl;dr early thirties; no degree; no work experience, period; but (hopefully) extremely capable and well-known software developer. plz halp reddit wat do

    submitted by /u/UnderEmployedFOSSer
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    I'm jealous of Europeans who get like 6+ weeks of vacation every year. Are there any American companies that do that, whether it's PTO or unpaid?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 02:11 PM PDT

    I've been working for a year as a developer since college. My job is fine. I like the people, I get paid way more than I think I'm worth, and it's fairly challenging. But I only get 3 weeks off a year. I just had my 1 year performance review, and got a raise after failing to negotiate for more PTO instead of a raise. It doesn't seem like that 3 week mark is ever going to budge at this company.

    3 weeks is pretty good for the US, but it just isn't enough for me. I have a long list of places I want to visit while I'm young, a stupid amount of disposable income burning a hole in my pocket, and not enough free time to do it all. I would take a substantial pay cut to be able to travel more. In an ideal world, I'd have something like 4 months off per year to travel. I think that's impossibly high, but something closer to 6-8 weeks doesn't seem totally inconceivable to me. I don't care if it involves taking some of that time unpaid. Are there any companies where I'd be able to sustain something like that? I'd move anywhere in the US, work with any kind of technology or products, and fit in with any workplace culture as long as it prioritized work-life balance in terms of time off.

    submitted by /u/sgfdsgsadf
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    When a recruiter asks you "if you have any other offers or if you're talking to any other companies" how should you respond?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 01:44 PM PDT

    • I was asked this a few days ago by a recruiter. She asked me if I was talking to other companies. How should I have answered this? For reference, I just answered honestly and said yes, I was talking to other companies but it's still early in the process.

    • She also asked me about salary. From this subreddit I knew everybody always says to do whatever you can to "dodge" that question, so I just said that I'm "flexible" with salary - and then she gave me a number of what new graduates start with (pretty low). I responded again that I am negotiable, I didn't pry too far since this was just a phone screen.

    • I'm kind of worried if I could get a potential offer rescinded if I keep prying with salary questions. Since it seems like it's very hard to get an entry level offer based on this subreddit... I've been reading about people who have refused offers then they go unemployed for a year.. etc..

    • Her offer was definitely lower than what I was hoping for. Overall I'm still not sure how I should tackle these questions when asked by a recruiter as a very recent graduate.

    • Would you bring up the market averages even if you DO NOT have any other offers? Like if they were to offer a position to me, but it's for around 10k less than the starting average based on Glassdoor, should I counter back and refer to the "average salary" in the area? Should I even reference Glassdoor? For reference, I'm pretty sure I can get more offers to make this negotiation tactic stronger, but as mentioned I'm still in the earlier stages of some other interviews and might not have a set offer by the time this company may make an offer.

    I also know based on this subreddit after you get an offer, you should tell them that you will take 48 hours to "consider" it. Idk what the hell I'm doing boys and girls I'm stressed as hell.

    submitted by /u/csdsquestions
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    Anyone quit their job to travel and came back, what was your experience like?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 12:23 PM PDT

    Title pretty much summarizes it.

    Did you join the same company? Has the actual traveling changed your life for good or worse? Any things to consider before doing this?

    P.S I'm not a native speaker, let me know of any errors you see!

    submitted by /u/lets_go_surfing
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    What is considered a good salary for Austin, Texas?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 12:59 PM PDT

    So this question is a little bit tricky. I've seen some people say 75k is pretty darn good for New Grad.

    Other people are like, nooooo anything less than 100k is shit for New Grads.

    So I'm a little confused, what is actually a good New Grad SWE salary for Austin, Texas's CoL?

    submitted by /u/csthrowawaym8
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    Low stress cs jobs?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 06:10 AM PDT

    Hey!

    I'm actually an undergraduate that's still trying to find his path in life, but I've had a passion for IT for a long time. I'm less interested in programming, and more into networking and such. I'm just wondering what jobs are on offer that feature relatively low stress in the cs world, especially with my interests?

    Roles like system/business analysts catch my eye, but I really have no idea.

    Thanks in advance!!

    Edit: formatting

    submitted by /u/W1F1
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    2 weeks into my first software job, struggling (mostly) socially and thinking I made a mistake

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 05:28 PM PDT

    After graduating in the fall and spending months applying, I got a really nice job at a startup in the midwest. Fantastic pay (for the area), great benefits, company seemed to have a really cool culture, everything I thought I wanted.

    I started the same time as one other guy. The company has a pretty nice onboarding program, so we're working on more or less the same tasks at the same time for the first few weeks. I feel like he's competing with me, which may be paranoia, but he's ALWAYS finished with whatever he's working on before I am. I'm talking a matter of hours, not a day or more, so nothing too demanding but he always seems one step ahead of me and I feel like it's been noticed. I'm not aware of how his code has been reviewed so it's entirely possible his code was sloppy as shit but I doubt it.

    I'm more worried about my social skills than my technical skills. I thought I had my social anxiety under control but apparently my social skills are worse than I thought. I'm not a good conversationalist and I lose confidence pretty quickly once I feel like I've done something wrong socially. I've missed a few social cues and it's led to situations where things like me being oblivious were interpreted as me rudely ignoring someone. I keep looking back on things I said or did and thinking "shit, they either think I'm socially helpless or they think I'm an asshole." My previous jobs were all very small business and very different environments and it's been a challenge adapting to a professional office environment.

    Part of the problem is that I don't really feel like I fit in. I'm a recent grad, but I'm also 29. Other than management and a handful of senior developers, I feel like I'm surrounded by a bunch of <25 year olds. I don't think the age difference is perceptible (I look young for my age) but it feels like they have so much more energy and aptitude and that their lives and interests are a lot different than mine so I find it really hard to relate.

    The bigger problem is that I'm not really passionate about software development, it's just something I sort of enjoyed doing that I knew would get me a decent job. There are a lot of really enthusiastic discussions in the office about things related to programming and tech in general and I find myself sitting there not contributing because I just don't know or care about it most of the time. When I do contribute, I don't have a lot of confidence in my what I'm saying and it comes out kind of hesitant and I immediately wish I hadn't.

    The other new hire DOES fit in, participates a lot more in conversation, and always has good questions to ask. Earlier today a senior developer stopped by our cubicles to ask us if we didn't have any questions and he had a multiple really good questions - I had one, and he asked it before I got a chance in a better way than I would have. I feel like I SHOULD have questions and the fact that I don't scares me. There's stuff I don't know, but it's all simple questions I can answer on my own without difficulty by Googling or referring to documentation so I feel like it'd look bad to ask those things. The other guy's questions are a lot deeper, more complex, or specific to the company's product.

    I've started trying to immerse myself in some of this stuff so I can keep up with conversation, started trying to think of questions that don't sound inane just to have something to ask, etc, but I think part of the problem is just cultural - the other new guy is better suited for the culture and demands of a startup and I probably would have been better off finding a job working for a government agency or defense contractor or something.

    Right now the basic timeline of my day is this: optimistic/determined in the morning, then late morning/early afternoon I fuck something up or feel like I'm struggling to keep up, which then starts the racing thoughs and cycle of panic and catastrophizing that leads me thinking that I've fucked up irreparably and influences my performance for the last few hours of the day. On my way out the door I fantasize about just never walking back in, I cool off on my way home and ruminate over my shortcomings for a while, then by the time I get in my car the next morning I'm already over it and optimistic that today's the day I get it right.

    At this point it feels like it's too late - like I've already created this impression that I'm some combination of disinterested, awkward, insecure, rude, etc. I've noticed the other new guy sort of naturally being included in more than I am and I know that's a problem.

    How important is it to "fit in" and how much damage have I done by creating a bad first impression? Can I undo some of the damage as I relax more and my social skills improve? Is it possible that this is all in my head?

    As long as I don't do anything illegal, offensive, or completely inept they pretty much can't afford to fire me for at least 6 months, right? By which point either I'll have settled in or I'll have experience and can start looking.

    submitted by /u/faintedgoat_
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    [OFFICIAL] Salary Sharing thread for NEW GRADS :: June, 2018

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 12:07 AM PDT

    MODNOTE: Some people like these threads, some people hate them. If you hate them, that's fine, but please don't get in the way of the people who find them useful. Thanks!

    This thread is for sharing recent new grad offers you've gotten or current salaries for new grads (< 2 years' experience). Friday will be the thread for people with more experience.

    Please only post an offer if you're including hard numbers, but feel free to use a throwaway account if you're concerned about anonymity. You can also genericize some of your answers (e.g. "Adtech company" or "Finance startup"), or add fields if you feel something is particularly relevant.

    • Education:
    • Prior Experience:
      • $Internship
      • $Coop
    • Company/Industry:
    • Title:
    • Tenure length:
    • Location:
    • Salary:
    • Relocation/Signing Bonus:
    • Stock and/or recurring bonuses:
    • Total comp:

    Note that while the primary purpose of these threads is obviously to share compensation info, discussion is also encouraged.

    The format here is slightly unusual, so please make sure to post under the appropriate top-level thread, which are: US [High/Medium/Low] CoL, Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Latin America, ANZC, Asia, or Other.

    If you don't work in the US, you can ignore the rest of this post. To determine cost of living buckets, I used this site: http://www.bestplaces.net/

    If the principal city of your metro is not in the reference list below, go to bestplaces, type in the name of the principal city (or city where you work in if there's no such thing), and then click "Cost of Living" in the left sidebar. The buckets are based on the Overall number: [Low: < 100], [Medium: >= 100, < 150], [High: >= 150].

    High CoL: NYC, LA, DC, SF Bay Area, Seattle, Boston, San Diego

    Medium CoL: Chicago, Houston, Miami, Atlanta, Riverside, Minneapolis, Denver, Portland, Sacramento, Las Vegas, Austin, Raleigh

    Low CoL: Dallas, Phoenix, Philadelphia, Detroit, Tampa, St. Louis, Baltimore, Charlotte, Orlando, San Antonio, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Kansas City

    submitted by /u/AutoModerator
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    Recently launched my website portfolio and I'm looking for some advice on it

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 07:09 AM PDT

    Hey guys, I recently launched my portfolio and I'm looking for some advice on it and criticisms. So basically I'm looking for a mild portfolio roast.

    It's up at https://omarthen3rd.github.io/Profile/

    submitted by /u/omarabbasi
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    How do you motivate yourself to do additional work at home?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 02:28 PM PDT

    I've had trouble doing work since I first became aware that personal projects were highly valuable. While I can do good work in an office environment, I have a lot of trouble going the extra mile at home, when there is no clear delineation about how I should spend my time, and a million distractions.

    I know a lot of you are ivy-league overachievers, and I aspire to be one of you. But in terms of the hour-by-hour, I just can't make myself do anything more than the bare minimum. It's very frustrating.

    Have any of you struggled with similar work ethic issues and overcame them? If so, what finally fixed it?

    submitted by /u/Condescendie
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    How should you answer the question "where do you see yourself in 3-5 years"?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 02:45 PM PDT

    • Should you say that you see yourself as a software engineer at "their" company? I think this sounds too desperate. Or should you say this as it conveys direct interest? I know companies like you to show interest in their company.

    • If you say something too unrelated, like you see yourself in a totally different position than what the original position is hiring you for, is that a direct negative? Like I mean I can see them not wanting to hire a person because they anticipate them leaving soon.

    I don't know how I should be answering this question when it comes up in interviews. Pls help. <3

    submitted by /u/csdsquestions
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    Anyone here a systems/business analyst?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 07:00 PM PDT

    I'm interested in the business information systems side of work, but I have no knowledge of these roles. Anyone here have experience or know anyone who does? Are these jobs considered to be stressful? Is it enjoyable work?

    Thanks in advance!

    submitted by /u/W1F1
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    Is a master degree on CS worth it coming from another background (bachelor) or is there another alternative for computer science for a person with a different background?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 06:32 PM PDT

    Hey, hope everyone well. Basically, a month ago I left a question about if it was possible to get a masters degree on CS coming from a different background( I have a bachelor's degree in Microbiology) and pretty much everyone was really helpfull giving advice and what should I do before hand. But anyways I know that the path of CS can take you to a lot of different career options. I know that I love technology and computers and I'm really thinking of switching basically to CS. My questions is, is it worth getting a masters degree on CS or are there alternatives routes that can take you to a technology and computer wise careers? I know it all depends on what im aiming for but I'm still not sure because there are a lot of options but I just want to know what you guys think and if is worth it ( The change from a different field to computer science i mean). Thank you!

    submitted by /u/Jale0080
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    What are some non-top tier companies that you would consider as good?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 04:23 AM PDT

    AAPL, GOOG, FB, MS, AMZN are are obviously vaunted because of their massive size, major public impact, and competitive compensation. What are some companies that are smaller that every engineer should still consider?

    submitted by /u/ArkGuardian
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    What is an underrated company you would recommend "Entry Level" or "Early Career" folks to apply?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 08:17 PM PDT

    We've all heard of the big and popular guys, but what are some companies that aren't often talked about that offer great employment and technology?

    submitted by /u/intrinsicnoob
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    Is it common that employers won't fly you?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 05:38 PM PDT

    I'm looking for work in NYC but I don't live there. I'm considering moving, because I have gotten 0 interviews after hundreds of applications. It seems that there are two options; I could find work in NYC, but employers aren't willing to shell out to fly me, or I'm totally noncompetitive in NYC, and the flight cost is not the limiting factor.

    Which of these is more likely? Do hiring managers factor flight costs into who they interview, and is it a good idea for me to move to NYC in order to increase my odds of landing an interview?

    submitted by /u/Condescendie
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    Should I be honest in my end-of-internship reflection even though I've had a bad time and might burn bridges?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 12:02 PM PDT

    I'll be required to have a reflection/meeting in a few weeks at the end of my internship with my supervisor and the career services of my university. I've had a really bad time here and have lost motivation. They don't give me meaningful work and I haven't grown as a developer/met any of my goals I outlined when I started. Do I answer their questions honestly with the possibility of burning bridges/recommendations or fake it and move on?

    submitted by /u/SongNinja
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    Questions as a Bootcamp grad looking for second job in NYC

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 05:02 PM PDT

    I've been ramping up my search for a new gig after a year and a half in my current role. I spent some time doing light freelance work before and total to about 2 years of experience post bootcamp. Absolutely no prior CS knowledge.

    Currently I make 88k total comp, but in receiving some advice from friends/family, I want to target at least 120k total comp in my next role. Is that too high even for NYC? Should I temper my expectations a bit?

    The other question is...I randomly was contacted by a Google recruiter about going through their interview process. Based on the PDFs she sent me and the research I've done, for at least the phone screen, it sounds like I should focus on the following, even if I would be interviewed for a front-end focused role (I'd do the challenge in JavaScript)

    - Big O Notation

    - Hashtables: From the recruiter's note to a friend who interviewed:
    "Arguably the single most important data structure known to mankind. You absolutely should know how they work. Be able to implement one using only arrays in your favorite language, in about the space of one interview."

    - Merge and Quick sort

    - Breadth-first and depth-first searches, inorder, postorder, and preorder

    - Tree construction, traversal, and manipulation. Binary red-black tree being the most suggestion "learn this" one

    - Graphs, or how to utilize BFS and DFS to traverse one. Likely I'll need to know Dijkstra's as well, though I have previously coded this in Ruby.

    Any good resources that can jump-start me over the two weeks of time I'll have to prep? Videos much appreciated.

    submitted by /u/1HDC1
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    Go Back For BS or Press on to MS in Comp Sci?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 10:40 AM PDT

    I'm kind of at an impass right now. I'm currently in medical school (not comp sci), very unhappy and looking for a change. My BS was in biochem, and I am thinking of going back for a comp sci degree of some sort, as my CS classes in college (and outside independent coding) were virtually the only academic pursuits that truly made me feel happy/fulfilled. So my question is very simple: Do I have any business getting an MS (1 year), and if so would said MS leave me at least as employable as the BS guys? Or should I simply just go back and get a BS (2 years)? I like my state school's program for an MS because the classes actually seem quite marketable -- they'll teach you things like AI, cryptography, and cyber security, which I know would look great on a resume for most companies. That said, the BS could make me look like I have more of a solid foundation. Obviously, doing both would be even better, but I'm really not looking to do another 3+ years of school. If I was, I'd probably just go for a PhD and call it a day. So what do you guys think on this? Any thoughts and recommendations are welcome, with special attention toward what path makes me the most marketable as a potential employee. My hope is to eventually work in cybersecurity as a consultant, but I'm very partial to full stack dev work as well. I'm just looking for a degree that'll get my foot in the door to at least start on that path.

    submitted by /u/ConservativelyRight
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    Could someone explain the difference between a platform engineer, an application engineer, and a backend engineer?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 06:38 PM PDT

    I'm going to be interviewing for a role as a platform engineer at one of my favorite companies next week, but I honestly can't find a definite answer as to how these roles are different. Also, I know this is going to sound dumb, but will I be writing code? I'm just paranoid at how often people on this sub say that they don't often write code in their jobs, but it's never been clear to me which jobs those are.

    submitted by /u/Purple-Brain
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    Crash in another school's career fair

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 02:23 PM PDT

    Currently I attend a Canadian University. Although we have Amazon and Microsoft coming here, I wanted to go to a career fair with more options. Could I, for example, go to Cali or Waterloo in Canada and attend their career fair? Would the recruiters still talk to me?

    submitted by /u/wongp
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    Networking

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 10:39 AM PDT

    What is the best way to network? How have you networked in the past and how were you able to get opportunities through the people you knew? Are you supposed to be super nice and energetic when networking or cold and firm?

    submitted by /u/promethazina
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    How is working for Salesforce as a new grad?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 02:17 PM PDT

    Guys how is salesforce asssoicate software engineer? How hard is passing the interviews?

    submitted by /u/thudehatat
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    Will quitting my first job at 6 months reflect badly in my job hunt?

    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 08:09 PM PDT

    My lease is up soon and I'm contemplating moving back home. Long story short, I moved from CA to another state for my first job and am unhappy at my company due to variety of reasons. I haven't made any friends here nor do I like this city's culture. There's not much of a reason why I'd want to stay here. I think I'm better off quitting, moving back to CA, and looking for another job than staying here any longer.

    Should I just stick it out for another 6 months for that 1 year mark or move home when my lease is up? I would have to pay my relocation package back but that isn't a big deal to me.

    Edit: I'm actively job hunting right now too if an opportunity does arise.

    submitted by /u/lifedrainingGG
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