Does anyone else get tired of just doing more and never doing good? web developers

Does anyone else get tired of just doing more and never doing good?
Just discovered Firebase Auth for MERN stack and I'm never going back.
Vercel raises $102M Series C for its front-end development platform
Any Great Communities to Socialize, Ask Questions, and Learn From Senior Devs?
Do you have a tip for my young bro?
How many projects do you need on your portfolio website to get your first job in web dev?
Help! Agency wants to use a designer, but wants me to create the website in Wix
�� Scroll: Build your own public domain newspaper.
Template language Nunjucks?
As of 2021, what's the consensus on using ID's for CSS styling?
European Championship 2020 (soccer) tournament calculator
Improving web dev by removing rather than adding?
HELP: front end technical interview
Is automatically generate a year for the copyright text a good idea?
Semi-noob backend question: authentication and cookies in node.js
I'm working on a side project to build an online directory and am looking for insight on where to source the business data. I was considering an aggregator (like factual) but the data looks cumbersome to acquire. Any suggestions? Any help or advice would be appreciated!
What's been your development journey? What got you to where you are?
HubSpot. Is it a good CMS or the worst CMS on the market? You tell me.
I need to build good websites faster. How?
Junior Developer Interview
Sorry, yet another Angular vs. React question. I'm building a B2B web app with long term support. Mobile development is highly likely. Would appreciate your opinions.
can someone explain how deployment works for web apps?
What advice would you have given yourself just starting out in web dev?

Does anyone else get tired of just doing more and never doing good?

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 07:52 AM PDT

TLDR; Stakeholders always want new stuff, no time to work on improving codebase, feel kinda crazy!

It kinda drives me crazy, but every job role i've had within a company has been feature focused. It's always about adding more, doing new things, and giving stakeholders what they want and i'm kind of getting tired of it.

Development standards, code cleanliness and consistency, tech debt, alignment of technology and approach.... it almost almost always a battle to explain the value of these things. It seems that nobody cares what the code looks like... only what it does.

I've become really tired of building the same components with minimal differences, because Project A & Project B just don't share code and communicate, and trying to raise the subject of collaboration seems to always be met with a selfish focus.

And this has been the case in every job i've worked in the last 8 years.

Does it get better?
Are there industries in which this isn't the case?
Do i just submit to the feature grind?

apologies for ranting!

submitted by /u/benbtf
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Just discovered Firebase Auth for MERN stack and I'm never going back.

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 10:35 AM PDT

I've used Firebase Auth before for basic Firebase apps, it always worked great but I was never a fan of Firebase itself. The costs scale too quickly if you do something wrong and it just doesn't feel as "concrete" as typical client/server architecture. I could never figure out the proper rules to set up and Cloud Functions seemed slow. I always went back to my bread and butter MERN stack.

However, yesterday I made an awesome discovery. You can use standalone Firebase Auth in the MERN stack! Meaning you can use all the prebuilt Firebase authentication functionality including sign ups, adding social providers, and verification emails into your React app without needing any of the other Firebase stuff to go along. Then you can pass your Auth token to your Node server, verify it, and retrieve the user to do whatever you want in the serverside code or database! No heavy sessions, no mess with securely storing JWTs, theres built in functions for everything!

The best part is, if you don't use phone authentication, its **100% free** even as it scales! (now I'm starting to sound like an ad, I'm just excited).

Some helpful tips:

https://usehooks.com/useAuth/ - Is an awesome React hook that puts all of your Firebase Auth functionality into an auth provider so anywhere in your code you can access your user or any of the sign up/sign out functionality. I just added a method for Google Auth and it was ready in seconds:

const signInWithGoogle = () => { const googleProvider = new firebase.auth.GoogleAuthProvider(); firebase.auth().signInWithPopup(googleProvider).then((response) => { setUser(response.user); }) };

In my Node/Express server I just created a simple Firebase and CheckAuth middleware like this:

// firebase.js const admin = require('firebase-admin'); const serviceAccount = require('../../firebaseKey.json'); const firebase = admin.initializeApp({ credential: admin.credential.cert(serviceAccount), }); module.exports = { firebase }; // checkAuth.js const { firebase } = require('./firebase'); const checkAuth = async (req, res, next) => { const authToken = req.headers.authtoken; if (!authToken) { res.status(403).send('Unauthorized'); } firebase.auth().verifyIdToken(authToken).then((user) => { req.user = user; next(); }).catch(() => { res.status(403).send('Unauthorized'); }); }; module.exports = { checkAuth };

Then I can just drop checkAuth as a middleware in any route and it'll force authentication as well as provide the user on my req.

I've only been using it for a day now so maybe I'm in for a headache down the line that I haven't forseen. But I feel like it is already providing me all of the benefits of a 3rd party auth provider like Auth0, but without a lot of the headaches that came with it, and I can be in control of the design instead offloading to a hosted page.

submitted by /u/DasBeasto
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Vercel raises $102M Series C for its front-end development platform

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 06:59 AM PDT

submitted by /u/magenta_placenta
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Any Great Communities to Socialize, Ask Questions, and Learn From Senior Devs?

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 03:15 PM PDT

I'm working as a Front-end developer right now.. trying to learn more advanced full-stack tech and patterns. I currently work on a very mall team in my current position which makes me one of the more senior devs. This makes it difficult for me to find people to chat about more advanced dev with and learn from..

I play a lot of MMOs whereby there are a ton of passionate close-knit communities of people who are willing to chill/socialize and share and teach the mechanics and best practices of the game to help me improve. It got me wondering if there was some sort of parallel for developers who want to ask questions, code with others, or learn from other more senior people who are willing to help.

Does this sort of thing exist? I know StackOverflow exists, and I often ask questions on Reddit, but a lot of the stuff I'm doing is easier to explain directly to someone who is interested in connecting and offering advice, etc. You don't always get answers on forums, etc.

I found a couple public groups on Discord which were alright, but they were very heavily populated and a lot of my questions and comments got lost in the noise..

Just wondering what resources you lone wolf developers use to network and learn from others..

submitted by /u/cmaxim
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Do you have a tip for my young bro?

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 01:19 PM PDT

I'm asking on behalf of my younger brother because he doesn't speak english, he just finished a 6 months course in which he learnt about those Html CSS Redux Nodejs Express React and MongoDB to be very honest i have no idea how good/bad is the course or his level but he is wondering what he should invest the most of his time on, what can be the most benefitial to perfectionate and maybe learning extra things? I want to help him but i know nothing in webdev so i'm asking for tips for him the goal is to start working as a freelancer

submitted by /u/OmgThatDream
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How many projects do you need on your portfolio website to get your first job in web dev?

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 06:26 AM PDT

I heard 4 projects is usually good?

submitted by /u/milli2323
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Help! Agency wants to use a designer, but wants me to create the website in Wix

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 01:29 PM PDT

This is frustrating.

My issue is the designer is a top class designer who has made some amazing full screen interactive website designs. If I was coding the website my own way (minimal framework use) then it would be fine, but for some reason the agency I got this work via insists on using Wix (they are a "Wix golden partner" - urgh) and I'm afraid that the designer will create something that I cannot pay justice to using Wix, thus making me look bad to the agency when the website doesn't quite match the design.

I'm due to have a meeting with the designer, and later the agency. What should I tell them to ensure they design something that can be made in Wix? Do you even really need a designer when making a website in one of these drag-and-drop shitebuilders? I don't want to come across as downgrading the design, or being a bad "dev" by not being able to recreate their design in Wix...

Help!

submitted by /u/RadientPixel
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�� Scroll: Build your own public domain newspaper.

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 01:16 PM PDT

submitted by /u/breck
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Template language Nunjucks?

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 01:03 PM PDT

I am just starting to learn using a static site generator and been looking at Jekyll, Pelican, 11ty, Jigsaw. I was reading Jekyll's docs because I use Github Pages, but decided on 11ty because I don't know Ruby.

Liquid looks extremely easy-to-use and straight-forward and is Jekyll's default template language. However, in many blog and video tutorials I have seen including 11ty's own docs, many people use this Nunjucks thing. On the surface, the {% logic %} and {{ variable }} are identical to Liquid. What's is it about Nunjucks that makes it so popular (seemingly more so than Liquid)?

submitted by /u/deanstreetlab
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As of 2021, what's the consensus on using ID's for CSS styling?

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 12:56 PM PDT

I get hung up on these little debates with myself - wondering what the general consensus seems to be - doing the research though, all of the articles seem to be from 6-10+ years ago...

View Poll

submitted by /u/RonanSmithDev
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European Championship 2020 (soccer) tournament calculator

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 03:55 PM PDT

Hello everyone!

I have built a little web application that can be used to calculate different results in the European championship of 2021 (football, or soccer for you Americans). A handy tool for any football enthusiast. The point is that you can guess the outcome of all games in the tournament and when you are finished predicting a winner you get a shareable link that you show others. I know I'm a bit late with posting this seeing as the group stage of the tournament is already over, I should have posted it BEFORE the tournament, but I still wanted to share it.

It can be found here! Now that the tournament is halfway complete, you can still use it to predict the outcome of the playoffs. If you click the yellow button it will automatically fill in the actual results of all the matches played so far.

This project was based on the World cup 2018 calculator that I also created. They look almost identical, but work a little differently, because the Euro 2021 tournament actually have a pretty complex tournament format that is a bit tricky to understand, which is why a calculator like this can be very useful.

Source code: https://github.com/ToWelie89/EuroCup2021Simulator

submitted by /u/ToWelie89
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Improving web dev by removing rather than adding?

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 12:09 PM PDT

Hi everyone, over the last few months I've been doing a LOT of reading to improve my knowledge of all the common tools in the modern Javascript development landscape. For example, trying to understand exactly what Webpack is doing when I use it, how it's doing it, and why, rather than depending on Create React App.

I also come across this article from Nature that some of you may have seen before: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00592-0

Would you use a CMS that can't even process basic HTML elements properly?

Per HubSpot being a CMS you have the ability to write free form code and definitions of HTML elements whether it be on a per file basis, in modules, emails, pages, etc as you can on any CMS. You know what the defining factor of HubSpot is? A CMS that can't even render HTML properly.

Let me give you an example:

In HubSpot's "modules" we can write an extremely trivial HTML element such as the modest "img":

Just a srcset with some url based transforms and width descriptors hinting the browser.

Even this is broken. Look at the rendered HTML via inspect element. Heres what would get rendered:

Note the extra spaces forming a malformed image url and fundamentally breaking the image rendering process. This is a trivial URL from cloudinary url transforms.

If you don't see it.... The spaces are clearly here "dog_c_scale,SPACEw_200" etc.

This is one of the most basic pieces of HTML code you could possibly write. You'd fully expect this to render properly wouldn't you? I most certainly would.

Now, if you're going to critique this and say "well that's not valid, use something else, url encode it, etc". Literally every one of those rebuttals is facetious in their own right.

Url encoding is not valid, this is ubiquitous across the web - if you think it's not you have apparently never been trusted with any website of value that uses media services such as cloudinary, so on and so forth.

Why is this so bad, frankly downright embarrassing, for a CMS and especially at such a large company?

As a software engineer I'd expect a multi million dollar company with multiple engineering teams and a global presence to be able to code a platform that renders the most trivial part of a website properly. That's not unreasonable.

Let's look at this from an engineering perspective:

As a software engineer if I wanted to write a piece of code that attempted to dynamically "optimize" someone's web page via image asset delivery using generated "srcset" attributes....

Literally the FIRST test case I would have written would have been "gee I wonder what happens if someone already did this" consider people can write anything per the way our platform works. And then "gee I wonder if I should test proper tokenization" to make sure image urls are handled properly.

Moreover, the fact that this platform is many years old and such a trivial bug not only still exists but has apparently not been pointed out or gained attention is also indicative of not only the severely lacking technical environment and state of the platform itself but also the talent pool which it attracts.

Mistakes happen. It's software engineering...

Sure one bug maybe it's not soooo bad - well actually a failure to do something so trivial is absolutely horrendous - but let's continue and you'll see this statement is patently false and this platform just dies not deserve any amount of your good will or hopefulness.

Here's some other stuff you can't do:

Have a development environment of any actual value.

They have a templating language called HubL which is like playing in the kiddy pool when you want to swim in the ocean. Sure, they have built in functions for the templating language some interoperability but again nothing of value.

You fundamentally cannot perform some operations that require lower level integration at the server level or otherwise obviously using a templating language.

And.... This is where most things that actually matter happen both in terms of rendering and optimization.

Perform any form of automated optimizations such as critical css

Due to the lacking development interoperability you cannot hook into anything, pre publish, rewrite code, extract snippets, etc that you can in most modern development environments.

Oh come on!! You're just being too picky.

This precludes you from doing everything required by modern standards and most useful HTML modifications.

Again, these are critical css, generated table of contents, preloading etc, automatic code splitting chunking etc as part of publishing pipelines and so much more.

Yeah.... Not having that is a massive problem if you want "performance".

Manage your websites own sitemap

Can you imagine paying some shitty marketing platform ~$900/month and not even being able to manage your own sitemap?

The provide a watered down version where you can add / clip inclusions. But again this is not management.

You cannot control the output, generation, content within etc in any meaningful way.

Manage any other similar files

RSS, Atom and other feeding. Dynamic injection and generation of the items within these feeds.

Why? Well apparently you've never heard of 3rd party services requiring feed markup adjustments such as Feedly.

Some search engines such as Yandex also can have feed markup supplied.

This isn't a nice to have it's a requirement to be able to manage my own fucking website as I want.

No access to root or way to interface with it

Favicons, manifest, ... Etc. Unless of course you want to muh with HubSpot URL redirect feature to setup "proxy" URLs for all of these.

Royal pain in the ass and poorly implemented.

Have reasonable bundle sizes served to users

EVERY INCLUSION OF A HUBSPOT "FEATURE" RESULTS IN ROUGHLY ANOTHER 500KB JAVASCRIPT FILE INCLUDED.

So, that means using a bunch of their features as most sites will per the marketing sell and focus.... Will result in ~2.5 MEGAbytes of JavaScript served.

God forbid anyone has video and other embeds going on. Stack some more on top

You know what's funny about this? It's trivial to reduce the sizes of these dramatically. They're just too lazy and couldn't give a shit about their users technical assets to make it a priority.

What's even funnier? They claim i18n and worldwide content management availability via multi language content but.. I'd love to see you serve a webpage with this included in a data restricted region.

Go ahead. I'll wait. Let's see how well that pans out. Just more horrendous coding, practices, and marketing bullshit.

No dynamic page meta or other content

Do I really need to explain this..... Toast is virtually a pre-requisite for most modern sites. React helmet or other flavor of your choice

Schema integrations.... The list goes on. You get none of it. It is impossible to automate this natively or do anything of value. It is case by case work like we're in the mid 2010's still....

Your theme is half assed and won't work fully

A lot of HubSpot and other items are embeds and won't take on thematic definitions. You should be facepalming right about now. Meeting widgets etc.

There are site level settings... But per web development standards and options this is not flexible enough for full thematic encapsulations.

You have a brand color. But this color on the web can take on many gamuts and displays.

In what gamut / space is it? Is it RGB, P3, Rec 2020, or what about HDR when that becomes available?

Am I being picky? Sure. My point is don't label free form development and improvements if you don't understand what that actually means, requires, and can't back it up.

You can't have multiple blog authors or manage anything blog related flexibly

It's archaic dated and unflexible.

You know what hubspot would tell you to do? Oh hey I know! Why don't you upgrade to using our hubdb package, roll a custom implementation, re integrate that into all of your pages, and then somehow fix our broken search also!

Greattttt solution.

This is a trivial feature of blogging.

The taxonomy system sucks

Searching sucks

The flexibility you have with search parameters is lacking to the day the least

No page type extension or collections

Having a "blog" as the sole aggregator is horrendously dated.

Collections are the norm now.

The rich text editing widget is not extendable

Any other rich text editor has plugin extensibility.

Do I really need to point out why this would be useful? You can't add footnotes, references, embed anything - such as stock tickers - twitter embeds etc easily.

Nor can developers build it. You can restrict certain items from being possible to add to the page via the editor and that's useful * to some extent *

Your design system holds no weight whether it's thematic or not.

Any free form page editing experience inherently fucks a design system and leads to unmanageable chaos as the sites entropy grows.

Inevitably this leads to some idiotic marketer going "wHy DoEsNt X lOoK lIkE Z".... Gee I can't imagine why after you edited half the page via rich text editors etc with changed styling.

To give you a concrete example.... Let's say you have a typographic system. Clearly it could scale be responsive etc and be nice and rigid in the design system

Here comes the marketer. Ooohhhh our page would just convert soooo much better if this useless passive agressive marketing BS I would barely call text could be .2 pixels larger

Great. Now you have embedded inline styling that clearly is not fluid and now fucks the design system it also breaks accessibility.

You can't prevent page editors from using modules that go outside your theme

Obviously this is bad. You have a design system that you can not prevent people from breaking. Your components - modules meant to be encapsulated - are inherently bumpkus.

Accessibility is..... Laughable. Downright non existent.

Their core implementation of their menus etc couldn't even use native html elements properly.

I'm not going to bother writing anything here. Anyone with experience clearly knows this cms is simply not good for this.

You can't interface with the editor - at all.

You can add custom CRM objects / cards but you can't add any actual editing tools for the CMS experience.

As we all know on most other CMS such as WordPress etc you have many plugins etc that can do this and provide useful utilities for everything from SEO to accessibility and beyond.

Modules have lacking control logic

You can't do complex logical conditions such as show field X if field Y and field Z are true.

It's limited to one.

RE2 regex is the sybrax used and it blows.

No negations, lookaheads, etc.

Oh and their statement we support RE2 is bumpkus also. Half the available syntaxes don't work.

Just run the Unicode script blocks and see for yourself.

i18n sucks.

Really just all around.

Going back to imagery......

No art direction or other modifications are easily manageable. Which WOULD be fixable IF you could actually render an image element appropriately....

Christ.

Anything you develop requires an uphill battle given all of the problems, limitations, etc

It's just an enormous waste of dev time that could build better things elsewhere.

Want to do fancy image placeholders etc?

Out the question unless you want a painstaking manual process.

See point about automation.

Sourcing data for Gatsby etc if you wanted to go JAMSTACK to "improve" things.... Is not great....

Because nobody's cares about this niche CMS you'd better be prepared to roll everything yourself.

Even then you'll run into problems.

Basically everything on this CMS is a half decade behind the times. And it likely always will be.

Here are HubSpots suggestions to "fix" some of this

We've added lazy loading to images

Congrats. You and every other CMS. This isn't a selling point. It's trivial to do this and everyone worth their salt knows to lazy load things.

We don't force you to use jQuery anymore!!

Lol.....

Pages and files are cached

Yeah they have plenty of problems. Browse the forums or look at it yourself.

You can use require_js or require_css to only include what's needed as it's needed

See request chaining discussion. This could have been good we're it not married by piss poor implementations.

HubSpot serves things with HTTP2 and GZIP

Again.... Your CDN does. Not YOU. Facetious point taking credit for another services features.

We encourage developers to follow best practices.

Gee I would sure love to we're it even possible on your platform. See preceding

HubSpot blogs support AMP.

Lol....

You can use React, Vue etc and integrate it

This is true. But saying "hey our platform sucks but you an roll an entire JSx or framework on top to improve it and then lay for our serverless functions suite if you want anything better!" Is most definitely NOT a selling point.

We have articles dating back years with performance rips etc

Yeah... See the above that's still fucked and your forums riddled with year old problems concerning these.

What you have is a mile long list of backlogs and no teeth implementing them.

We generate srcset for images

See original bug causing this post.

You can provide JS fallbacks

Wow. Great suggestion. Welcome to the dot com era.

Yes.... Except YOU as a platform already have the require HTML via your form builder and other integrations and it is trivial to generate a no JS fallback or facade the element until asynchronous loading has finished.

Do not put off your failings on to the user with such a facetious statement that you make out to be the users development inadequacies.

Why would anyone use your forms natively if they're just going to build a raw html version anyway?

Set explicit heights / widths on all asynchronous elements and other obvious performance taglines everyone knows that somehow eclipses their platform level problems.

This is valid for imagery. That's it. The rest is platform level and could be managed automatically when processed prior to database storage of the template.

Stop passing off failings onto your paying clients. Again.

What value does your platform have if for every fucking cta, form, etc I have to patch the jank? This is automatable.

There are many examples here. The inclusions are the obvious ones. Facading anything is a royal pain in the ass too if you attempt to improve performance.

Compile your CSS into a single file

Yeah. We'd really like to. And to chunk it.

This is laughable. Their suggestion here is "don't use our module CSS scoping because we know it sucks and will cause problems with request chaining". So don't use any of our native platform features and patch our failings some more

Sure you can build a theme locally with "chunked" css optimized etc that puts everything into a static neat box. That's not dynamic or useful. As anyone with a modicum of web experience knows.

You know what would be useful? Pre publishing hooks to automatically generate CSS, critical, and below the fold. But, per HubSpots free form on page editing experience marketers can fuck the entire site up and design system at the click of a button. So you could generate a stylesheet encapsulating those changes and defer it on the fly also. But you can't.

This is virtually the approach to every hubspot problem. A marketing / pr level rebuttal about how it's somehow on you to fix their architectural problems.

The CMS is 10x more expensive than alternatives. This is the level of care and support you can expect..

Use our image resizing function to aid media delivery

This isn't a selling point. This is prevalent in any CMS. But your platform fails because that's all you can do dynamically. Again. Kiddy pool.

Oh and what's funny? Look at their forums. Most of the time this function is bumpkus half works and often degrades the image to unusable levels because again their media management is horrendous.

Even if you could fix all of this a marketer will just fuck it up in ~.2 seconds.

It's a marketing platform. With marketing scripts, integrations, etc built in.

We all know what those do to websites.

Here are the "good" sides of HubSpot technically - or so they say

Our community forum has ideas we implement and actively work on fixing

Yeah. No you don't. At all.

It's just a feel good approach that does nothing. Everything if value gets buried.

You can find multi year old threads detailing all of these problems and many more.

Eventually people - much like me - just get so fucking fed up with this platforms bullshit they move elsewhere

We serve WebP!!!

Yeah. Congrats you and everybody else. Welcome to 2013. Who gives a shit.

YOU don't serve anything. Your integrated services built by technical teams that actually knew what they were doing handle your media delivery at scale. Stop with the bullshit marketing taglines.

We have serverless functions

Congrats ... I'm so happy I can write a bunch of serverless functions to do things of limited value and latch your platforms problems.

Come back when you have rendering hooks and things of actual value.

Our themes improve our CMS and fix all of this

Says who? You have slightly more development flexibility with the ability to use local web flows and tooling but this misses the point.

It's a failure to see the forest through the trees - so to speak. You still have no development environment integrated at a level which offers true value. Server level or otherwise.

Your themes are yet another hubspot feature that has it's own mile long list of problems I won't bother detailing. This is lengthy enough as it is.

If the product team had any valid experience they'd realize themes need to be more flexible. Imagine that ... A theme - whose entire purpose is developer encapsulation of what they want - needs fluidity. Who would have thought!!

As the web grows ever more complex so do the encapsulations for those of us who serve clients and want to build our projects requiring advanced feature

But, hey I'm so glad people can change some basic RGB values for their brand colors and tweak a few border radii on buttons. Much wow.

If you buy our super duper expensive enterprise package or a top tier agency you can do better!!!

You can adjust your CDN settings and other "great" features. Wow much wow. Fuck that.

I could rent a supercomputer for less. Instead of paying the platforms ridiculous fees you could pay any developer that actually knows what their doing on virtually ANY other platform to write better faster code with more flexibility and performance that won't royally screw you over long term.

A CDN is not a selling point. It is a pre-requisite as is the ability to edit the configuration powering your website at it's most base level. Whether that be basic code interfacing or cdn / server tweaks.

Enterprise etc makes me laugh. Why does anything marketing come with such clicky cultures and packages? As with everything marketing it's always a bunch of naive people circling jerking themselves about how great they are. I mean just look at the entire field of SEO "experts".

Oh look at us we're a "diiiammmmoonnnd partner agency". Who cares? You couldn't develop your way out of a boot camp. The only thing your "agency" has is a shiny digital badge with no meaning and no talent.

But we're better than WordPress, this CMS, or that one!!

Lol...... Wut. After this mile long list - of which I could make many mant more points.... You genuinely think that?

Yes WordPress has so many plugin and other problems. Obviously.

You know what it also has? Way too many off shored devs and poor clients hiring them.

WordPress is nothing but what you make it. And it's better simply for the reason you can actually make it into something.

Our editing experience is so good!

No. It's not. It looks like it's from the mid 2000's functions like it and has it's own technical problems.

We're a marketer focused platform

1) It's incredibly stupid and ignorant to think you're "good" because you can convince someone with facetious marketing tactics that their methodologies of slapping a few marketing forms etc on their website carelessly is a "better experience". Until they then wonder why their SEO, performance, etc is absolute dog shit down the road. Then see the technical discussion which severely limits any improvements you can achieve to improve these things.

2) People don't know what they don't know and your platform simply takes advantage of ignorant people that don't know any better. The idea a marketer should be touching any technical part of their website whatsoever is frankly laughable.

3) But they don't need to we have module encapsulations so and so forth. See technical discussions surrounding this.

4) If it doesn't work you didn't set it up right! Really...? The web, itself,and development is incredibly dynamic and increasingly complex with new options available for authors. Putting people in a box doesn't work beyond the most trivial of cases and

5) All of your marketing "tools" are poor man's versions mashed together on a subpar platform of which there are countless better and more modern options. Not to mention the cost difference. It's remarkable anyone pays you guys the sum you charge.

6) Crazy idea I know.... But it's almost like web developers are required to do.... Web development.

7) Your marketer focus is the driving factor of poor product design decisions and implementations that continue to degrade the CMS experience. To clarify for people that are less.... Insightful. Again - technical discussion. I do not give a flying fuck what some marketer thinks is "good". 8) These implementations resulting from this focus are the main pain point of any websites problems on your CMS. Everything from your forms, cats, leadflows, chats, etc require loading MASSIVE JavaScript bundles to do such trivial tasks. Which load asynchronously contribute to jank and more directly impacting core web vitals. Moreover these bundles are so bad that clients regularly attempt to include them in other platforms and see negative effects.

But, our boilerplates are fast!!!!

No, they're not.

Your boilerplates actually are a MVE of your platforms architectural problems.

Per the waterfall and performance inspections you'll see the poor resource chaining, improper asset caching strategies, flags, cascaded and extremely heavy CSS thematic approach that is touted as "standard" and just generally lacking practices prevalent throughout them.

The boilerplate is also facetious in that's it's obviously extremely bare ones and with a reused asset file that is trivial in size and load bearance.

The moment any adds any real content and builds a real website all of these problems multiply linearly. Sure you have the script loader and other things built in, bur you can make any website "performant" by deferring everything and giving perceived performance.

There's nothing performant about needing to load 500KB JavaScript bundles for a single form and chaining requests to load poorly encapsulated css along with the horrendous thematic css splits, overrides, etc.

The list goes on and on and on.

Their latest release

A media bridge integration that makes your entire sourced media - from it - dependently rendered with yet another massive JavaScript bundle inclusion should you use to track marketing events on the media.

Oh and let's not forget jank and other problems!

In summary what happens is this.....

Client spends inordinate amounts of money on this CMS hires a marketing agency or subpar talent that is fleecing them with rates they don't deserve to be asking.

They eventually get fed up now have a large site that's grown too big to easily move, would definitely be cost prohibitive, and have to just"settle" for the limitations.

Most HubSpot agencies have a WordPress website

If that tells you anything...

In summary....

This is genuinely the worst CMS platform I have ever used. The marketing requests and BS on top is just the icing on the cake when you as a developer have to put up with it. As we all know and can agree on...... We hate anything marketing with a passion.

This entire platform is trying to reinvent the wheel to make something "better" and failing in every aspect. I think it's an excellent case study of exactly what not to do for a CMS.

Personal musing

Honestly, it's no wonder their platform has so many failings. It's a content management system built by marketers for marketers and has all the failings of marketers. The talent pool this company uses is on par with the same level of engineering talent marketing agencies would attract.

Honestly I can't imagine any other technical setting where people wouldn't be - near immediately - fired over such extensive problems. Much less their "resolution" being posting to their lame ass "ideas" board.

Looking up their CTO..... I cant say I'm surprised.

You decide....

So, you tell me. Would you use the HubSpot CMS or recommend it to clients knowing this?

Oh and for the marketers reading this that say it's good for SEO or some other BS.

Yeah no it's not. You can do better virtually anywhere else significantly faster and more cost effective.

Not to mention the page experience update from Google.

submitted by /u/WhatAJokeOfACMS
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I need to build good websites faster. How?

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 10:41 AM PDT

Hi devs

I run a small agency/freelance, and usually websites are involved with each client. I feel like every time I make a website, it is just taking way to long. I've been using TypeScript/React/SASS and have improved my workflow with organized mixins and variables, and the boilerplate structure of the app plus a few components. I feel like the rest of development takes forever and it's really discouraging.

I started researching UI frameworks and adopted Material UI for a project and it sucks. I really took the time to learn it properly, but the components are almost unhelpful; rigid and irritating to customize just right. JSS is a dumpster fire, turning my files longer than a CVS receipt. I will concede, it has some helpful things (Hidden, breakpoint features, Typography, Theme object in general), but the only features I found truly helpful were ones I could (or already have) implemented, in a relatively short time.

I had to work on an established wordpress site. It's easy to make quick edits, but overall its absolute dogshit and slow and annoyingly limited whenever you do something unique. I have a fucking computer science degree, I will not sell wordpress sites for a living.

Had to work on a WIX site. Also dogshit. Same drawbacks as wordpress.

When I look for something new, there is so much noise and so many buzzwords that I don't know what to do. Material UI was presented as some kind of miracle and that didn't exactly work out.

What should I try?

I want to build websites quickly and have control over JS/TS, CSS (SASS ideally). I want to use React (or something with similar benefits). I need NodeJS for server side rendering, or be able to use tools that make static prerenders.

TL/DR: Make good website fast with control over code, and ssr. What do?

submitted by /u/steveoaustin
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Junior Developer Interview

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 10:02 AM PDT

Hi everyone! I have an interview coming up for a Junior Web Developer. Does anyone have any good advice and/or what I should be expecting?

I just graduated with my Associates in Web Development and will be my very first interview. I'm extremely nervous and anxious. Thank you!

submitted by /u/clarissaxplains
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Sorry, yet another Angular vs. React question. I'm building a B2B web app with long term support. Mobile development is highly likely. Would appreciate your opinions.

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 01:06 PM PDT

I've done lots of googling in the past few days. At this point I know pros and cons of each:

Angular is fully fledged framework. It's great for enterprise but has some learning curve. For mobile there is Ionic Angular, but it's webview based.

React is essentially a library. It has a larger developer community. Learning React itself is easier but you constantly bump into making choices for routing, state management, etc. There is the popular React Native, although transition from React to React Native isn't necessarily as simple as a button click.

Now, here are my requirements:

It's a B2B web app, meaning long term support and maintenance is likely.
We will use Java Spring Boot backend.
I'm 90% certain we will end up building a mobile version. Our product focuses on visualization (e.g. dashboard) more than user interaction, so I feel like a webview-based app will work fine. But still, having an option to go native is attractive.
Core dev team size will probably stay ~5. There could be more support/integration engineers. I don't see us hiring dedicated native iOS/Android engineers at least in short term.
Personally, my last web dev experience was 4 years ago. So I am not strongly opinionated or have preferences. That is, I don't mind JSX, I'm ready to learn TypeScript, and so on.

I'm in the process of building simple prototypes with both, but a prototype is just a prototype. It won't uncover all the issues we will have down the road... so here I am looking for advices.

I'm currently leaning towards React for 1) existence of React Native; 2) potentially larger talent pool for hiring. Angular being "enterprise-like" sounds promising though. Are there any more reasons I should consider Angular?

EDIT: Grammar

submitted by /u/boundlessorbit
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can someone explain how deployment works for web apps?

Posted: 23 Jun 2021 09:16 AM PDT

i am learning to code fullstack apps and i can deploy them on platforms like netlify and all, yet i dont know many things like statics files,cdn,install a server,background workers,ci/cd,etc

can anyone suggest any resource that explains / teaches deployment for web apps using any platform like aws or hostman, gcp,anything?

Breaking News

Programming29

Wednesday, June 23, 2021

Does anyone else get tired of just doing more and never doing good? web developers

Does anyone else get tired of just doing more and never doing good? web developers

Would you use a CMS that can't even process basic HTML elements properly?

Let me give you an example:

Why is this so bad, frankly downright embarrassing, for a CMS and especially at such a large company?

Let's look at this from an engineering perspective:

Mistakes happen. It's software engineering...

Here's some other stuff you can't do:

Have a development environment of any actual value.

Perform any form of automated optimizations such as critical css

Manage your websites own sitemap

Manage any other similar files

No access to root or way to interface with it

Have reasonable bundle sizes served to users

No dynamic page meta or other content

Your theme is half assed and won't work fully

You can't have multiple blog authors or manage anything blog related flexibly

The taxonomy system sucks

Searching sucks

No page type extension or collections

The rich text editing widget is not extendable

Your design system holds no weight whether it's thematic or not.

You can't prevent page editors from using modules that go outside your theme

Accessibility is..... Laughable. Downright non existent.

You can't interface with the editor - at all.

Modules have lacking control logic

RE2 regex is the sybrax used and it blows.

i18n sucks.

Going back to imagery......

Anything you develop requires an uphill battle given all of the problems, limitations, etc

Want to do fancy image placeholders etc?

Sourcing data for Gatsby etc if you wanted to go JAMSTACK to "improve" things.... Is not great....

Basically everything on this CMS is a half decade behind the times. And it likely always will be.

Here are HubSpots suggestions to "fix" some of this

We've added lazy loading to images

We don't force you to use jQuery anymore!!

Pages and files are cached

You can use require_js or require_css to only include what's needed as it's needed

HubSpot serves things with HTTP2 and GZIP

We encourage developers to follow best practices.

HubSpot blogs support AMP.

You can use React, Vue etc and integrate it

We have articles dating back years with performance rips etc

We generate srcset for images

You can provide JS fallbacks

Set explicit heights / widths on all asynchronous elements and other obvious performance taglines everyone knows that somehow eclipses their platform level problems.

Compile your CSS into a single file

Use our image resizing function to aid media delivery

Even if you could fix all of this a marketer will just fuck it up in ~.2 seconds.

Here are the "good" sides of HubSpot technically - or so they say

Our community forum has ideas we implement and actively work on fixing

We serve WebP!!!

We have serverless functions

Our themes improve our CMS and fix all of this

If you buy our super duper expensive enterprise package or a top tier agency you can do better!!!

But we're better than WordPress, this CMS, or that one!!

Our editing experience is so good!

We're a marketer focused platform

But, our boilerplates are fast!!!!

Their latest release

In summary what happens is this.....

Most HubSpot agencies have a WordPress website

In summary....

Personal musing

You decide....

Oh and for the marketers reading this that say it's good for SEO or some other BS.

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