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    Big 4 Discussion - July 29, 2018 CS Career Questions

    Big 4 Discussion - July 29, 2018 CS Career Questions


    Big 4 Discussion - July 29, 2018

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 12:07 AM PDT

    Please use this thread to have discussions about the Big 4 and questions related to the Big 4, such as which one offers the best doggy benefits, or how many companies are in the Big 4 really? Posts focusing solely on Big 4 created outside of this thread will probably be removed.

    Abide by the rules, don't be a jerk.

    This thread is posted each Sunday and Wednesday at midnight PST. Previous Big 4 Discussion threads can be found here.

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    Daily Chat Thread - July 29, 2018

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 12:07 AM PDT

    Please use this thread to chat, have casual discussions, and ask casual questions. Moderation will be light, but don't be a jerk.

    This thread is posted every day at midnight PST. Previous Daily Chat Threads can be found here.

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    How do Product Manager salaries compare to Software Developer salaries throughout the course of their careers?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 11:46 AM PDT

    Just wondering how the salaries of one or the other compare across career lifetimes

    I've heard that initially Software developers make a lot more money than product people, but over time Product people end up with higher overall salaries (assuming they've been good at their jobs and climbed the ladder)

    I'm sure some people are going to say this question is kind of vague, so if it helps bound it a little bit:

    Lets imagine that the software developer and product person have a similar amount of experience at the same company in the Bay Area, with equally good skills at their job and educational backgrounds (Let's say a bachelors in either CS or Business)

    What are the differences in salary?

    If possible, it would be cool to see real numbers on this?

    submitted by /u/JamieOvechkin
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    Looking for feedback on the strangest job offer I've ever received

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 01:08 PM PDT

    Long story, sorry about that, there are lot of weird details. I'm about to finish my MS, I have six years of extremely prestigious, valuable, relevant experience between BS and MS, and I just turned down an offer for more or less my dream job. I'd like ask what people think of this odd story.

    I applied to work with a very well funded, well staffed robotics startup led by several people who are top in their fields. Some of them are academic, some are industry. I still have obligations with my university so I won't officially graduate for another semester, but my schedule is completely open and there is nothing stopping me from working 40 hours a week elsewhere. (Edit: The obligation is I have to take one more class, any class, to meet the hours requirement. I'll be taking an online class with a very light workload.)

    I did three interviews over the course of several weeks, they all went smoothly. We discussed full-time employment, I sat down for meetings with their entire staff and discussed what my work would be and whom I would work with, and we put together a list of company functions that would be my responsibility as of my first day. And then they sent me a written offer for an internship with the lowest salary I've ever been offered and no benefits. I know for a fact that they're paying their other engineers more than double what they offered me, people with fewer qualifications than me. I emailed them back and asked if the offer was correct, it was astonishingly low and ... it was an internship. The CEO emailed me back and asked me to elaborate, they claimed to not understand what the problem was. After a few rounds of absurd conversation that didn't go anywhere, I declined their offer.

    Within minutes I got a phone call from the CEO, and they genuinely seemed confused. I asked why they had given me such a low offer and why they offered me an internship instead of a job, I asked whether this was how they were compensating their other employees. The CEO told me "of course not, everyone else is regular staff with regular benefits and we offered you an internship because you don't officially have your degree yet and we'll convert you to a regular employee when you graduate". I asked whether they expected me to work full-time and whether they expected me to deliver professional quality work during this several-months-long "trial period", and they said of course, we wouldn't hire you if you couldn't do that, but that they wanted to pay me half of what they acknowledged I was worth until I had my diploma in hand. I asked, twice, if they would add the eventual full-time hire into the contract, so that everything we discussed would actually be on paper, and they said no, they didn't think that was necessary. They mentioned that they had a great reputation and I should be able to trust their promises. So again I declined their offer. The next day they sent me an email informing me that they were withdrawing their offer.

    This was a bizarre experience. What's most strange to me is that the CEO really does have a terrific reputation as a very reliable, trustworthy professional. I discussed this with several people who know and work with the CEO at their university and they were all dumbfounded, they all said no, they had never been treated that way. None of this strange experience matches up with anything external to it. It was like a Twilight Zone episode. Any thoughts?

    submitted by /u/avantGardePoptart
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    What parts of a CS degree have been most useful to you?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 03:59 PM PDT

    Background: I studied molecular biology in college, with intent to do wet lab work and become a researcher. I then discovered that I liked coding more than wet lab work, and have spent the last 4 years working as a software engineer at various biotech companies. (I currently write code for desktop application that does machine control for an automation instrument, and I work primarily in C# and Python).

    I've learned a /lot/ on the job in the past four years, and consider myself to be reasonably competent developer, in the sense that I can write reasonable code to solve the problems that I face at my job. But -- especially when it comes to design reviews, comparing the advantages of different designs for a particular feature, and architecting larger features from scratch -- I sometimes feel that there are fundamentals or core concepts I'm missing due to my lack of a formal CS background. I only took 3 computer science classes in college (an intro to object-oriented programming in Java, a functional programming class, and a bioinformatics class with a focus on data processing/analysis in Python), and I took an online Algorithms class after graduating that taught me the basics of algorithms (searching, sorting, time complexity, memory, etc). But I feel like there might be knowledge I'm missing that I don't know that I'm missing. I've never taken a course on programming languages, operating systems, or data structures. I don't have a clear understanding of how compilers work. And I can self-study any of those areas, but I'm not sure which of them will be high-value for improving my skills as a software developer (as opposed to only being useful for helping me pass coding interviews).

    For those of you who've done CS degrees (either at the undergrad or master's level), what courses have been most useful to you on a day-to-day basis?

    submitted by /u/mayleaf
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    Advice for finding non-summer internships?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 12:31 PM PDT

    Intern.supply is looking pretty dry at the moment. Any advice or websites for finding fall/winter/spring internships?

    submitted by /u/CENTIENT_TOAST
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    What separates an "average" software programmer from the kind of programmer that gets promoted and valued within a company?

    Posted: 28 Jul 2018 09:28 PM PDT

    Is it raw coding ability? Talent? Algorithms knowledge? What are the technical skills (and soft skills) that separate the up-and-coming rising coder from the average software dev?

    Edit 1: Startup, large corporation, Facebook/Google, etc.

    submitted by /u/lotyei
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    Devs with ADHD - What can I do to make you succeed?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 02:38 PM PDT

    Over the past few months I've been managing a few developers, and one has a very obvious case of ADHD (or something very similar). He is easily distracted by just about everything and has a really hard time of keeping on task. If there are ANY possible tangents he can go off on he will go off on them. To compound this, his overall development skills are fairly poor and I'm trying to work with him on that. He's fairly fresh out of school so I can understand him still being in "school mode" and I'm trying to help him see the bigger picture instead of turning in homework.

    At the start, it would take him several weeks to do what I could do in a couple hours. It's not because I am some 500x developer. He was struggling mightily so I decided I needed to take a much more radical approach with him.

    I've taken a few steps to help him:

    • He's only assigned one issue at a time. If he's assigned more he will bounce between them and get nothing done. One issue at a time, even if it's something that will only take a few hours to complete.
    • He's only assigned issues that are fairly straightforward. Anything that requires researching something or making a decision is something where he'll either spin his wheels forever and go with the first thing he comes across.
    • His tasks are described in, at times, painstaking detail that leave very little room for interpretation or assumption. This is generally a good idea as it removes the ambiguity of what is expected but I have to take it to another level and explain exactly what he should do and exactly what he should not do.
    • I check in with him regularly to ensure he stays on task. It's 50/50 if he's on task or not. Fortunately, by checking in regularly he doesn't go too far down any one random tangent.

    Overall, these steps have made a positive impact on his productivity. It's still not even close to being good but it's improving. I think given a few more months of getting used to working with him and him gaining valuable experience that he'll be a much more valuable asset.

    However, others have noticed that he gets and needs special treatment. They know he's not as competent and has an issue with getting anything done. He's noticed it and asked me about it. I straight up told him I'm doing it because the alternative will probably end up in him being terminated. He understood that and hasn't asked since. But he's undoubtedly the red-headed stepchild of the group.

    If he didn't have a good attitude and a strong work ethic I'd probably push for him to be terminated. However, he gets along well with everyone and works hard. His hard work just doesn't always result in something that can be considered meaningful results... or results at all.

    What can I do to make him better succeed? How can I avoid the impression of him being the "red-headed stepchild?"

    submitted by /u/dopkick
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    How did you chose your specialization?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 08:54 AM PDT

    As an entry level dev I am not sure how to chose where to focus my energy when applying

    I have small projects all over the place (web dev, ios/app dev/ in progress ML, fintech , data base admin)

    Some seem more travel based

    Others pay more money

    Some are higher in demand for jobs

    Others have very long hours-but pay well

    How did you make your decision?

    Overall Im not a fan of web dev

    submitted by /u/jackalope100
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    What is your seating situation?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 05:51 AM PDT

    Are SEs destined for the cubicle life?

    Do you have a solo cubicle? Duo cube? Your own office? Does your workplace do hotelling?

    Right now I have my own office but I am getting ready to apply elsewhere. Is it weird to ask about how developers are seated at the end of interviews?

    submitted by /u/mouse1455
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    In the Middle of Career Change, Considering a Masters in CS

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 07:53 AM PDT

    Hello,

    I am a 28 year old located in the US with a previous bachelor's degree in psychology. For the last 4 years I have been working in education, but I have started to make a transition away from that and towards CS. I have done 3 semesters of undergrad CS and Math courses, and have found that I really enjoy the world of Computer Science. I have been learning on C++, and have completed Data Structures as well as the intermediate programming class.

    However after doing the math I calculated that even after these 3 semesters of work, and my previous undergraduate degree, that graduating with an undergraduate BS degree in CS was still 2.5 - 3 years off. On a whim, I applied to my public state college's masters in CS program and got in.

    I have a lot of trepidation and fears about this path, and I'm wondering if anyone can provide their own experience or knowledge on if this is going to a viable path. If I go into this Master's program it will take me about 3 years to finish, due to the fact that I still have 3 undergrad classes to take as well as the graduate courses. That means that I will be 31 when I graduate with this degree. To supplement the fact that I have not worked in the tech industry before, I will be seeking out internships while I work on this degree.

    Another consideration is that I'm already shouldering a large amount of undergrad debt (~30k) from the previous CS/math semesters and a previous unrelated summer semester as well. The massive amount of debt from college makes me feel very uncomfortable.

    I know that self-teaching is an option, but that my pay will be lower and that my opportunities will be fewer.

    I have also considered the boot camp option, and understand that it is viable, but that the long term benefits won't be as good as having a degree.

    Will this masters degree actually be useful and pay itself off? Or is self teaching the better option due to the high cost of higher education in the US? If anyone has any thoughts for me to consider it would be greatly appreciated, as at this point in time I don't feel confident.

    Thanks

    submitted by /u/VicariousGeorge420
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    .net Bootcamp

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 07:06 PM PDT

    Hello everyone. I am going to work for a company in six months and they wanted me to learn .net on my own. They recommended that I attend bootcamps in my city. Is this the best way to learn the language or there are other better alternatives?

    Thanks in advance

    submitted by /u/mos1992
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    Considering an Offer..

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 07:42 AM PDT

    Hi r/cscareerquestions, been a long-time lurker so thanks for all the advice so far!

    I've been interning within a recently-started Data Analytics division at a growing accounting firm and just received a full-time offer.

    We are like a startup within a bigger company (mid-sized) so I'll get to do many different things. The issue is that it's not very technical, as we tend to use Microsoft software, etc. and there isn't much coding going on.

    Even though this mix of soft skills and technical skills is what I wanted to do further down the line, I'm worried that it'd be better to start more technical to have a more thorough background to make later career moves easier. This job does offer close contact to leadership, which would be insightful; however, the day-to-day will involve a lot of Microsoft products and some RPA tools rather than "deeper" tech such as infrastructure and security.

    I consider myself to be a good but not great programmer (but a quick learner) and good with soft skills. The offer ends on Friday.

    TLDR: Got a full-time offer for a position involving low-code tech and client-facing tasks.. wondering if this would be worse for my career than a more tech/dev role. I would like to go into tech consulting one day... just think this might be premature though it offers other good benefits..

    Thoughts? Any similar situations for you guys?

    submitted by /u/throwaway__cs
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    Getting Started in Software Testing and Quality Assurance

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 05:26 AM PDT

    Greetings,

    I have recently decided to pursue a career in Software testing. Little background: I'm in my final year. I've done RHCSA, (going for RHCE and CCNA) but because of lack of opportunities for freshers in these fields, I've opted for testing (not being forced. if you were wondering). My goal is to get into testing, finish my CCNA-CCNP and then get into Network Testing and architect(way later).

    How do I start studying for testing and also doing practicals for the same. What are the various topics/books/courses I should be covering? Links are appreciated.

    submitted by /u/Shadyjoker27
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    What are good companies to apply to, as a soon-to-be graduate?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 03:42 PM PDT

    I've heard that you should pick a job that you think you would like. I really don't know what I would like though.

    Amazon has a reputation of overworking employees, and I wouldn't be happy at a company like Google that fired James Damore. I also don't want to work for the military.

    I would really appreciate if anyone can throw some ideas out there.

    Things I value are the ability to relocate, salary (of course), and an environment that is not overbearing.

    submitted by /u/acsstudent
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    Been sending job applications for 1 month now, have only gotten 1 reply - please help

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 05:26 PM PDT

    I have a BS in CS from WPI, 2 internships, and 2 years of experience as a mobile software developer. I took this past year off to hike across NZ. Now that I'm looking for a job again, I'm finding it near impossible to get one.

    I've been applying for remote mobile (or java-focused) positions. My search is pretty narrow because I also want to work for a socially beneficial company, not just finance or business management. I've sent out 2-3 dozen applications and have only gotten 1 reply, which after the initial interview they turned me away for (it was a timed, 4 question technical test. I submitted highly detailed, optimized, commented, etc answers for the first 3 but ran out of time for the 4th). What am I doing wrong?

    submitted by /u/bmbmjmdm
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    Been in IT Audit for over 3 years, kinda stuck on what to do next

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 08:19 PM PDT

    After graduating I wasn't sure what I really wanted for my career but I needed to get a job to help support my family (mom and younger siblings) so I got into a Big 4 (the accounting ones) and spent 2 years as an business analyst doing IT audits and some infosec engagements, even got a ISO 27002 Foundation certificate. Then I got a spot at my country stock exchange IT Audit team and I'm working there for the last year and a half.

    I still don't know what I want for my career, I don't hate it or anything, but I'm not sure if I should stay where I am and specialize or try to move to another path. The tricky part is that I can't just get an entry level job in another area to learn anything else from scratch because the pay cut would be too big and right now I'm the only one working at home (economy sucks lots of unemployment).

    I've been looking into IT Governance, maybe get a Cobit certification to help get in or something related to Data analysis/data mining (not science) since I don't use it right now but I know some companies use it extensively.

    What other kind of roles would I be able to leverage my current experience and move laterally?

    submitted by /u/Omichilin
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    Explain the differences and responsibilities of BA, Project Manager, Product Owner, and Product Manager in your company

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 08:03 PM PDT

    Curious to see how these roles differ across tech companies.

    submitted by /u/CheeseburgerLover911
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    Would Tableau, SQL and basic knowledge of Excel be enough to get an entry level Data Analyst position?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 07:59 PM PDT

    I know Tableau and plan on doing more projects to showcase my skills and I'm learning MySQL and plan on learning Postgresql. Would this be enough or do I need to learn more stuff? How did you become a data analyst?

    submitted by /u/lovesocialmedia
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    Total newbie here seeking for advice on this offer

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 07:38 PM PDT

    Background: * Total here newbie in regards to handling a business... * Can't loose my day job until I receive a greater monthly compensation * Married with kids


    A month ago, was strongly referred by close former PM colleague (let's call him Pete) to his investors about his product. Wouldn't disclose much information about it but there's definitely a strong traction to it as there are existing products out there (though not much felt "yet" in our country).

    Days later, I've reverse engineered those products and plot the timeline how soon I could start shipping. Pete said, that the timeline is feasible and even gave me a 100-200% buffer time since I'll be doing it part-time.

    Yesterday, he extended me their contract and offer: * Company will be founded in my country as an incorporation * 5-6 founding members (me, Pete, and the rest are investors) * Pete, will be CEO/Chairmain * I will be CTO/COO * $25k initial funding (all from investors) * $5k upfront to me as CTO * company shares aren't discussed yet as it will be a start-up


    Today, I've reviewed the offer and clearly I wanted more as I'll be doing almost everything. Yes, I may not be doing the legal stuffs but operations-wise I'll be a one man team (from designs, to programming, to maintenance).

    Later, I might send to Pete a counter offer that looks like this * $5k upfront (not included in the $25k capital) * 40-45% shares as CTO * or, $50k for the product and 25% shares


    I know I'm exaggerating some values but given the business traction, they could easily hit millions within a year. And all I want if a fair competitive share if I'll be doing it and wasting precious time from my family.

    submitted by /u/ThrowawayPinoyCTO
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    Is there anyone out there who strictly sticks with one language?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 09:53 AM PDT

    I was wondering if anyone out there who stuck with one language the whole way through. How did it turn out? Do you feel like it is better this way?

    Career wise

    submitted by /u/darcMadder
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    Any of you have jobs out there that are out of ordinary?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 07:33 PM PDT

    Members of this sub contribute to different types of software, be it management, development, consulting, venture capitalism, startups, etc.

    I'm interested in knowing what are some jobs that are completely, out there, out of the ordinary. If you think that your job is out of ordinary, please share.

    submitted by /u/JuggleYoungManJuggle
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    Any business/accountants here? Looking for advice on future paths

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 10:38 AM PDT

    I'm looking on some advice on where to take my career next. I'm a CPA who's worked at the largest accounting firms in the industry.

    I made a jump to a different company working on business processes which has allowed me to develop my programming skills.

    I've been working in VBA, SQL and Python. I'm by no means skilled enough to take on a job full-time but I'm making progress everyday whether it's working on it at work or at home.

    I'm at the point where I think I need to make some decision about my future career. I've got the following paths in mind:

    (1) Go full out CS career route and work towards either a degree in CS or a build my github and get a job in CS (2) Continue on my business/account career path and go get an MBA.

    Option #1 I definitely don't have a defined path for -- but it's an idea I've been toying with.

    Option #2 I'd be aiming for a top 10 MBA and if I didn't get that I wouldn't go. Which would likely leaving me to default to option (1).

    Anyone been in a similar situation that could pass along some advice?

    submitted by /u/WatDoIdoforFuture2
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    Is there anything I can be doing besides just getting another engineering job?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 03:36 PM PDT

    This may sound odd, but i've been a software engineer for the last 5 years. Currently looking for a new job. kind of wondering if there isn't anything else I could probably find fulfilling. or even if its worth it to maybe take some time and take classes or something on tech i never got a chance to work with before

    i'm just really bored with it all. I just feel tired all the time and my attention drifts towards any distractions. I thought perhaps it was just my previous company. But now that I've got a bunch of interviews lined up next week, I realize that I'm really not excited about anything anymore. i feel like i just need a job in the field...cause money, and thats what i feel like i'm supposed to do

    submitted by /u/rafikiknowsdeway1
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    What's it like working for BlackBerry in 2018?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2018 08:45 AM PDT

    Specifically as an intern, but I'd be interested to hear anyone's perspective

    submitted by /u/Benjo_
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    Homeless developer in Silicon Valley making news for his job search

    Posted: 28 Jul 2018 08:38 PM PDT

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